Originally Posted by Fc dofep
Who is the greatest Martyr of all time?
Why ask questions to which you assume you already know the answer? That is not much of a question is it? Unless you were just wanting to give your own personal opinion as well I suppose.
Jesus, (this is according to historians) had a chance to escape. He could have run and lived but chose to die on the cross. He chose to die for the people and to give them faith. No person can argue against Jesus' life and death.
Of course he could have ran. Although technically
, I would argue that he himself
to die for the people, he was just being obedient to his father's will. But then the trinity comes into play, and all these non religious peeps start tripping. So I needn't say more. That can be another debate in and of itself, and I don't want to get into that. Mike has already sufficed for that sort of indulgence.
And why do you say according to historians? It is also according to the bible. Don't you know that? Or are you just being secular friendly?
Here we are today with a biography of a man that lived over 2000 years ago. Billions of people read from it everyday. They use it for moral lessons and for guidance on how to make the right decision.
True. I remember National Geographic had a TV series a while back devoted to the top influences of the world, whether it be bad or good. They listed people, religion, countries, rules, history, wars, genocides, events, etc. Number one ended up being Jesus. Whether you believe in Christianity and/or Jesus or don't believe in Christianity and/or Jesus is irrelevant. If you argue against Jesus' impact on the world you are a flat out idiot. Just as I don't follow/believe in most of Islamic teachings, but I can attest that Mohamed has impacted life on a worldwide scale. And I certainly am not a Nazi, yet I can agree that Hitler's impact on the world is immeasurable and undeniable.
One could argue, even though man is flawed, if everyone strived to be like Jesus, then the world would be a significantly better place to live. His teachings are simple and true.
If everyone treated one another better than themselves, life would be incomprehensible. Think about it. Cannot even picture that sort of world. Although many will argue that if people strive to be like Gandhi or Mother Teresa you would also get the same outcome, so why does it have to be Jesus?
Parables are not all that 'simple' as you say. In fact, Jesus purposely spoke that way so that "they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear buy not understand, unless they should turn and be forgiven".
Originally Posted by .Mike
if he didnt exist then he wasnt a martyr, because a fictional character cant be a martyr because a fictional character never was alive
But in their fictionalization they can be martyred. So why limit the question to a fictional or non-fictional person? If Jesus is fictional, then wow, that proves the point of his global impact even more so I think. Most non-fictional people cannot even do that. Ultimately saying that Jesus was fictional or non-fictional is pointless, doesn't change the way, or the people, that he impacts.
you only think that his life has had a huge impact on the world due to the nonsense you have been indoctrinated with your entire life
Stop talking out of your ass, seriously. And again, whether you believe in Jesus and/or Christianity and/or don't is irrelevant to it's global impact.
1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology: 500 thousand
christianity has "justified" more injustices than any other institution in the history of the world, take the abortion doctor who was killed in a church as a contemporary example
Not only is this false, but if it were true, that still holds no weight to the debate. And secondly, the fact that it is false just makes it all the more amusing. TABLE 1:
Pre-20th Century Genocide and Totals:
China...221 B.C.-19 C...33,519,000...No
Mongols...14 C-15 C...29,927,000...No
Slavery of Africans...1451-1870...17,267,000...No
Amer-Indians...16 C-19 C...13,778,000...No
Thirty Years War...1618-1648...5,750,000...No
In India...13 C-1 9 C...4,511,000...No
In Iran...5 C-19 C...2,000,000...No
Ottoman Empire...12 C-19 C...2,000,000...No
In Japan...1570-19 C...1,500,000...No
In Russia...10 C-19 C...1,007,000...No
Spanish Inquisition...16 C-18 C...350,000...Yes
Witch Hunts...15 C-17 C...100,000...Yes
Even more ironic, check the following table out (Now I myself completely believe you can be absolutely moral without having religion, I show no favoritism to the following table, just stating facts). TABLE 2:
20th Century Genocide
China (Mao Soviets)...1923-49...3,466,000...Yes
Turkey (Armenian Genocide)...1909-18...1,883,000...No
(Both tables accredited to Godandscience.org)
besides isnt it a little convenient that jesus ascended into heaven leaving behind no physical remains?
Again, not even close to what is being debated.