Pinned

Some Changes in the Pipeline

Hi guys,

It's been a while since I've been able to be actively involved with THF at a community level. While I have poured hundreds of hours into site infrastructure over the past few months to make the site perform better (hopefully you've noticed the much improved page load times), I subsequently have not had much remaining time to help organize and promote THF within the Halo community at large. I've tried to get people to run the social media and organize events, but the amount of willingness to help over a sustained period of time seems to be difficult to find. As I've said many times before, and will say again, this is your guys community, not mine. I may own the site, but ultimately what happens within the community is determined by you guys, not me. I've been here to support our efforts, such as developing a tournament system that has allowed us to run several fairly successful tournaments, but I simply don't have the time to play both system administrator and community leader.

With that said, I'm here to tell you guys that I will be bringing in someone else to help run and promote TheHaloForum. I will still be around, and I will be just as involved as ever in developing new site features to support the efforts of this individual. While I can't yet disclose who this person is, I can tell you that I am incredibly confident in his ability to promote gaming communities and is highly in tune with the Halo community.

A big part of this upcoming effort to promote and grow THF will be focused around the competitive community. That is not to say we will be dropping our rich history of supporting Halo video and montage makers. On the contrary, contests such as our annual montage competitions will be as big as ever. There has always been a strong link between top Halo montage creators and the competitive community, and I believe this will continue to be the case as we move forward into Halo 5, where 343 and Microsoft are making major investments into running competitive tournaments and leagues.

What does this mean for THF?

Initially, not much will change. I will announce further details about the upcoming changes in the weeks to come. You can expect something around the time of the Halo 5 launch. In a nutshell, I will be taking a step down as a community leader, and replacing myself with someone who is much more invested in the Halo community. This individual will be utilizing their significant marketing and social media reach within the Halo world to help promote and grow THF as both a montage and competitive focused community. TheHaloForum will also work in parallel with other Halo community sites to cross promote and highlight things going on outside of what we're doing.

All in all this is going to be a very positive thing for THF, I can assure you. Stay tuned, and thank you to everyone who has stayed loyal to our community over the past year and a half. Halo is not dad, and neither are we.

- Nv1ncible

Sounds awesome, thanks for everything Nv1ncible! I haven't been here long, but I can certainly see there's been a huge amount of time and effort into this site!
I didn't get banned, just demoted?  Sweet.
Da tension is killing me
Is this still happening?
Ugh, unfortunately this is up in the air. Person I was in contact with went afk and has been extremely hard to contact. There's still a possibility things come through but at this point it has stalled out.
The irony!  
I think you should really get someone to actively promote the content on here on the site itself to start with and make this site look more alive. Halo montages/videos have been the main source for me to come check this site out over the years and I think it is for many others too, now the last montage that got posted on the front page dates back a month ago and now that Halzred brought out a new one it is put on there (by himself I suppose) right away. I'm not saying it's not deserving to be on there but there have been many Halo montages over the different Halo games within that month and also earlier already that weren't put on the front page because he obviously only cares about promoting his own and his friends' CE/H2 montages on there. Get someone to help him at least to make this site look like it's one of the prime sources for finding montages and Halo videos. There is actually someone now trying to set up a THF Christmas montage, put those kind of things on the front page as well. Also the last article under the front page topic "recent on the halo forum" dates back to the 7th of September, which isn't recent at all, it's even far before the release of H5 which shows that there really hasn't been made a proper effort to have H5 bring some more activity on this forum. For new people visiting this site it just makes it look like it's very inactive and I think for many it doesn't look interesting enough to explore it further and discuss Halo.
I didn't front page it FYI
Okay, I wasn't sure, that's why I said I suppose, didn't mean to attack you personally or anything.
No prob

I think you should really get someone to actively promote the content on here on the site itself to start with and make this site look more alive. Halo montages/videos have been the main source for me to come check this site out over the years and I think it is for many others too, now the last montage that got posted on the front page dates back a month ago and now that Halzred brought out a new one it is put on there (by himself I suppose) right away. I'm not saying it's not deserving to be on there but there have been many Halo montages over the different Halo games within that month and also earlier already that weren't put on the front page because he obviously only cares about promoting his own and his friends' CE/H2 montages on there. Get someone to help him at least to make this site look like it's one of the prime sources for finding montages and Halo videos. There is actually someone now trying to set up a THF Christmas montage, put those kind of things on the front page as well. Also the last article under the front page topic "recent on the halo forum" dates back to the 7th of September, which isn't recent at all, it's even far before the release of H5 which shows that there really hasn't been made a proper effort to have H5 bring some more activity on this forum. For new people visiting this site it just makes it look like it's very inactive and I think for many it doesn't look interesting enough to explore it further and discuss Halo.

Sadly the site's identity has been lost in it's effort to redefine it.  What I mean by that is H2F/H3F/THF has traditionally hosted/announced a wide spectrum of content that included trickers, modders, machinima, semi-serious montages, montages from "known" names all the way down to total unknowns. Hell, some of the videos were downright goofy and weren't "all srs, all the time" like the current iteration.

But unfortunately, if you focus on on specific point in the distant past, your viewing focus becomes narrower and narrower as time goes on. When there is a perceived loss of value within any given ecosystem, traffic decreases, metrics fail, people stop caring about your content and what is offered, they stop by less and less often, and eventually move on. It's kind of like that "Bar Rescue" tv show where Jon Taffer (the loud, balding "bar rescue" guy) walks into failing bar after failing bar only to discover the same thing: The owners are too myopic/headstrong/immature to admit that their business model simply is no longer working and the only way to save their bar is to radically reposition themselves within their given microcosmic market. In the end, the ones that make it are the ones who can figure this out and change course.  Will this happen here? Absolutely not. We've already alienated quite a large chunk of what was an established Halo fanbase in a very short period of time. THF is now running under the same model at the now-defunct Halo-Pro.Com used ("serious" Halo2/CE only, please. By known names please) and that is considered a failed domain. 

Don't get me wrong. I love LiT's stuff and still have a lot of nostalgia myself, but then again I have no investment in this site, so my perspective is simply that of an observer.

 

 

I got you.

 

I'm a member of LiT and even I (dare I say we) are frustarated with the montage scene, and extremely frustrated with this website.  We hoped that MCC + the relaunch of this site + LiT could really bring some fire back to the forums, but it really hasn't. There have been a few sick montages on here, especially near the end of MCC, but nowhere near the amount that we are used to seeing.  While we have definitely seen some of the best clips Halo CE and Halo 2 have to offer with MCC, we lost a huge portion of the community. If you look at the names making these videos... they're all the same. I think LiT as a group and as individuals have made a quarter or more of the Halo CE / Halo 2 content for the montage scene this year, and while that's great for us, it's hard to see how slow this scene is and how low the views are.  

 

I mean, hell... On the topic of LiT: We released one of the biggest Halo 2 projects in years with the Team Tage, and it's sitting at less than 2k views. Hyena released a few of the absolute sickest Halo 2 videos to ever grace the earth...  All less than 10,000 views. I can go on and on with naming some of the amazing videos that came out this year and showing the numbers, but we get it. It's bad.

The montage scene as a whole is dying, and things are switching to more casual videos. Look at the top Call of Duty channels - they're almost all gameplays or "funny" commentaries with a montage sprinkled in from time to time. /R/Halo hates montages, unless it's by a pro. The world is changing, and unfortunately the things that we loved are going away with the changes.

 

That being said, I think we (Jake) have 2 options. Stay "Halo2Forum" forever, or actually embrace the new games and have dedicated people running the site (not Jake). I'm honestly fine with either one at this point, but this is the decision that needs to be made in order for this website to have a purpose again. 

PREACH!
When do we get mods back?

So, just to respond to the last few comments, I definitely agree that expanding our horizons would be a positive thing. In fact, I've never NOT thought that. One of the challenges with relaunching/rebranding the site was doing it in a way that gave us a fresh look/feel while still maintaining our roots as a community. It was never my intention to have a narrow focus in terms of content, it's just that the content that gets posted here tends to be of a particular type, which I guess you could call semi-serious montages. With that said, I think we've made an attempt at featuring other types of content. For example, BxSouljah impressively wrote several historical pieces on competitive Halo players, and I built a tournament system that Bx also used to run several successful free to play tournaments.

There have definitely been efforts made, but overall most of our power users that post Halo content are still focused on montages, and I think that's totally fine, it's just that the reality is that the Halo and gaming community at large don't have much interest in that anymore. It's sort of "old hat". That's not to marginalize anything these people are creating, I'm absolutely stoked every time I see LiT or Halzred or Hyena put out a new video.

In terms of marketing/advertising, it's a tough thing, and something I don't have a ton of experience with. I've made efforts to put people in charge of social media, only to have them eventually fade out. And that's sort of understandable, because obviously they are doing it on their own time and if they feel their efforts aren't producing results, it's not surprising they lose interest.

This original thread came about because I was in talks with another prominent party in the Halo space, and we had several positive conversations about collaboration, but as I mentioned a while back, it looks like this is on hold, if not dead in the water, so for now it's still just us.

That leads me to the question I would pose to all of you, which is, what would you like to see change here, AND how are you willing to help?

Pay someone.

 

That's literally the answer to all of your marketing issues, your social media issues, your content not being updated issues.... Just pay someone / a few people a small amount of money to do it and it will get done month after month.

That leads me to the question I would pose to all of you, which is, what would you like to see change here, AND how are you willing to help?

A lack of moderation is always a problem on any forum, and is nonexistent on this site. What little has been done in terms of moderation over the past couple months has been overtly lax, to be polite. CoT is always going to be it's own beast, but the halo sections absolutely need some sort of structure to them that curtails unnecessary bullshit, and i accept my portion of the blame for some of that unnecessary bullshit - To be fair, I think most of these instances could have been avoided had there been any sort of mod presence at all.  Allowing mods to follow the guidelines they've been presented means that we all have to play ball and not fight a little mediation so vehemently. Whether or not that can happen at this point is questionable. It's been a shit-show for the past several months and people are now accustomed to that shit show. I'd nominate myself as a mod for the halo videos section, but I think we all know that would be met with plenty of resistance. Regardless, if this place begins to operate like a forum once again then i think that would do a lot to improve the overall image of the forum. If we appear to be functioning on a more normal, healthier level then I think more new members would buy in/not feel entirely out of place. At the very least it would quell the "post your content and bail" epidemic plaguing the videos section.

Back to CoT, i don't really care what goes on there but i've found it problematic that random unrelated CoT topics are allowed to find their way onto the main page of this site. No marks against CoT, do you, but this place is never going to look like a halo forum if the most recent forum discussion on the homepage, or the forum itself, is filled with "inside discussion" that literally no one but a handful of people have an interest in. Were I a halo player looking at popular posts on a website homepage, i'd be looking for relatable discussion that i could participate in... Not Zeague's heroin addiction updates or something like the Gotzeus'-family-are-dog-murderers thread, or some other thread along those lines. If this place wants to claim to be a halo forum then CoT should by and large remain off the books when it comes to the face of the forum. Plus it's not like the regulars want some randos walking into to their discussions any ways. Not a shot at off topic by any means, just a reality. 

BxSouljah needs to be reinstated as having front-page posting abilities at the very least. I don't know specifics, but i know you guys had words which led to him being removed from that position. He was the only shining light on this forum and by your own admission he was posting some great stuff. He was the only person visibly contributing anything of worth from my position. I don't know what goes on in VIP discussion etc. but from where i'm sitting with the information i have, he was doing some good things that this forum appreciated and he should continue doing those good things.

Clip Of the Week, Tournaments, Montage Comps, anything that's been done in the past can't hurt. I volunteer my help and support for any of the previously mentioned activities, whether it be organization, participation or something else that's needed. I have no doubt that there's been discussion of these things behind closed doors, but it needs to move past the discussion phase - pick people to lead these activities, if they fail then pick some one else. You need to seek out the people interested in actually "doing" rather than "talking". I think the best example of that, again, is Aaron. He set out to do something and did it - Find more people with that attitude. The halo community loves to talk talk talk, it's a fucking disease - All we do is talk about things, and the forum is an extension of that. There are people out there willing to go the extra mile so find them and hold on to them. The inner circle of this forum, VIP, mod admin etc. needs to be full of Doers, not talkers.

 

Most of this is moot. The moderation, CoT representation, active staff, this all should have been taken care of months ago. Hable got removed off mod months ago, not complaining about that b.c. he was worthless tbh, but no one came in to replace him. Same thing happened with Aaron, he got removed and our only link to front page content and tournaments was cut off and there's been no replacement. I bring that up because essentially the damage has been done with these long periods of inactivity and even if follow-through happens now, a positive outcome isn't guaranteed.

Happy to help with anything.

 

 

So, just to respond to the last few comments, I definitely agree that expanding our horizons would be a positive thing. In fact, I've never NOT thought that. One of the challenges with relaunching/rebranding the site was doing it in a way that gave us a fresh look/feel while still maintaining our roots as a community. It was never my intention to have a narrow focus in terms of content, it's just that the content that gets posted here tends to be of a particular type, which I guess you could call semi-serious montages. With that said, I think we've made an attempt at featuring other types of content. For example, BxSouljah impressively wrote several historical pieces on competitive Halo players, and I built a tournament system that Bx also used to run several successful free to play tournaments.

There have definitely been efforts made, but overall most of our power users that post Halo content are still focused on montages, and I think that's totally fine, it's just that the reality is that the Halo and gaming community at large don't have much interest in that anymore. It's sort of "old hat". That's not to marginalize anything these people are creating, I'm absolutely stoked every time I see LiT or Halzred or Hyena put out a new video.

In terms of marketing/advertising, it's a tough thing, and something I don't have a ton of experience with. I've made efforts to put people in charge of social media, only to have them eventually fade out. And that's sort of understandable, because obviously they are doing it on their own time and if they feel their efforts aren't producing results, it's not surprising they lose interest.

This original thread came about because I was in talks with another prominent party in the Halo space, and we had several positive conversations about collaboration, but as I mentioned a while back, it looks like this is on hold, if not dead in the water, so for now it's still just us.

That leads me to the question I would pose to all of you, which is, what would you like to see change here, AND how are you willing to help?

I've said my peace a dozen times over.  No point in me writing articles when less than 5 people read them, no point in running tournaments when structural issues were never addressed or fixed, no point in organizing community game nights when no one shows up.  It all stems from the top down.  There's no communication between the top level and people actually posting on the site and making valuable content.  I would love to do all those things again since that's really the only thing we had going for us.  Site maintainence and "faster page load times" are not the reason THF will be relevant in the community again.  The simple answer is to provide a product that no one else offers on the internet.  If it's quality montages, we need annual contests, the fact that one has not been organized and the VIPs are in disarray is embarrassing.

Jake, if you continue to do what you have been doing, THF will continue to die, simple as that.  Not only are we not respected in the Halo community, we're not even known.  Who's fault is that?  Who shoulders the blame?  You can't really on the 20 or so active members of the site to draw traffic when there is no communication with the leaders, which at this point is just you.  If you want to solely be responsible for having a site that runs really fast, by all means do you.  But you need to have someone else in charge that actually cares about the community and will take action to bring THF to the forefront.  You've made it painfully clear, that this crucial person is not yourself.  The only thing I even need to point to just justify this is your OP in this thread.  Who is the other person you were in contact with?  What site or company were they representing?  Why couldn't you disclose this information if you never heard back from this person?

I'll be the first to say, that I was out of line and should not have called you out publicly when I was a mod when you were absent from the forums.  And I do  apologize for that Jake.  But at this point, where do we go from here?  

 If you want to drive traffic to the site and make THF relevant again, you need to put someone else in charge that is actually going to do something with the potential of our community.   We need to offer something to new and returning members that Beyond, Waypoint, and r/Halo do not currently offer.

 

Most of this is moot. The moderation, CoT representation, active staff, this all should have been taken care of months ago. Hable got removed off mod months ago, not complaining about that b.c. he was worthless tbh,

 

 

hey hey hey, I banned a penis once.

 

And I was "bot mod" anyways. We used to have contests to see who could ban the most posts... Slater and I were the Bot Slayers along with a few others.

Worthless.
Infracted!

I would love to write original articles on topics that Beyond is not covering.  I would love to organize tournaments for Halo games that Beyond are not hosting; I don't even have a problem with putting up my own money for the prizes.  It was you and Slater who made me use your system to host tournaments.  But when something major went wrong, you were no where to be found and it was impossible to contact you.  And then when you finally appeared again you acted like you couldn't be bothered with the issue and you made zero attempts to look into it.  And then you demoted me when I called you out on your inability to do the one thing you said you were an expert at doing.  Shit like that fucking pisses me off, and is why you either need to step down or give some else the job you can't handle.  

This site has had no montage contests, no YouTube uploads, no exclusive content, no pro player interviews, no top ten clips, no articles, no community events,  no presence on Twitter, no partnership with other Halo sites, we don't have an active Twitch channel, and you wonder what the hell is supposed to happen?  You can't put the blame on the members who are doing your job for with zero incentives.  

We can't even get back all the people who have left our site over the years.  There's no reason for OGs to come back when theres' virtually nothing here.  And you can't shun  away the people who are actually trying to help and then fucking wonder why no one posts here anymore.  It's simple, put someone or a small group of people in charge to create a few products or services that no one else currently provides.  

Twitch and Twitter are where you need to be. Bring back community game night and stream it. It ahs to be a regular event, on an official "Halo Forum" Twitch channel, and did I mention it has to be a regular event? You can't just do it a couple times and then bag it because of low viewer numbers. Also, it probably needs to be Halo 5, MCC has about 7 viewers most nights. Obviously try not to do it on nights that pros are playing in tournaments, or even when TB is doing there tourneys. 

 

Just a thought, I know this is the type of thing that me or my 16 year old son would watch. 

THF is now running under the same model at the now-defunct Halo-Pro.Com used ("serious" Halo2/CE only, please. By known names please) and that is considered a failed domain. 

Don't get me wrong. I love LiT's stuff and still have a lot of nostalgia myself, but then again I have no investment in this site, so my perspective is simply that of an observer.

This. I was active at Halo-pro before its death, and I see literally the exact same thing happening here. They were taking themselves too seriously and refused to change. I think everyone above has a lot of good posts and points. The front page is abysmal, disappointing, and in need of more frequent updates.

I feel like this website's identity would indeed be best suited for streaming (Twitch) and halo videos. It would be relatively easy to have some highly skilled, prominent members stream, since they're playing anyway. They could use some sort of THF overlay, have THF in the title, etc. As far as videos - we really have had a lot of great content considering how little people pay attention or care. There needs to be a way that we can create more traffic for these videos (that advertise THF) so that the videos will drive people in. Maybe we need to stage an assault on r/Halo or Beyond and post and hype the fuck out of these videos.

I know these probably aren't original thoughts but fuck it. My 2 cents.

Thanks, I'm glad someone noticed the parallels with Halo-Pro.com that I made. And it's so true. Traditionally, our unspoken motto was, "If you like Halo in any capacity, then you are welcome here." But this message is no longer projected. We had working relationships at various levels with High Impact Halo, Jump Tactics, Halo.Bungie.Org and many other venues. Anyone remember when H2Fers used to "check in" when they went to an MLG event? It was like this domain was their home away from home.  And that was because we had what is sometimes referred to as a "sense of presence." 

That "sense of presence" simply does not exist today. I've pointed this out before, and of course it was useless, but I'll gloss over the finer points again. H2F has always been a social site first. We were Facebook of Halo, long before Facebook ever initiated their first server.  We were Twitter for the community, years before anyone knew what a "tweet" even was.  Today, we just call it "off-topic," but the WOYM thread did (and does) have eerily similar elements shared with FB and Twit. Have you ever considered that? I have. Because it's true.  Needed someone right away? "Get on AIM! That was what we used years and years before Facebook Messenger or even SMS.

The reason I point this all out is because, again, even though the site looks technically more up to date, we have lost so much of that "social" element in the transfer that we used to have with the old VBulletin.  For example, think that being able to see when a user last logged on is a big deal? It actually is, because H2F has always been, and still is, a social networking site first. Sure, you can say "well just goto the members list" but who the hell wants to do that? Remember when you used to see "last active 3 hours ago?" Seeing that gave you a light feeling of connection to other users. 

Another example - I haven't seen Crest post in a while and I'm wondering what he's up to. In VB, as primitive as it was, finding out Crest's "last threads" and "last posts" and even when he last made an appearance was fairly easy.  We can jokingly call it "low level stalking" but be honest with yourself. How many times did you used to do that with an old buddy that fell off the radar with the old site? The truth is, low level stalking (AKA "checking up") on friends is a perfectly normal function in any social media venue. All of this is more or less lost now. And it's a shame because we have failed to remember what we really are all about, what H2F/THF really always was, and that was a social hub for Halo fans. 

Can this be fixed? At this point, who cares?  Why do I say this? You ever been to a big house party and you get that feeling in your stomach that the party's almost over? Nobody actually announced it, but you can tell in your gut. It's the little things you notice. The conversational hubub gets a little quieter. The "bathroom line" is now gone. The music's volume isn't as loud as it was half an hour ago and the lights seem just a hair brighter. I think that's kind of how most people feel about THF at this moment. The pile of coats on the bed has shrunk considerably. The keg is kicked and all that's left is a couple of warm Miller Lites tucked away in the kitchen counter's corner, the cardboard edges of the twelve pack haphazardly ripped away. 

 

Can this be fixed? At this point, who cares?  Why do I say this? You ever been to a big house party and you get that feeling in your stomach that the party's almost over? Nobody actually announced it, but you can tell in your gut. It's the little things you notice. The conversational hubub gets a little quieter. The "bathroom line" is now gone. The music's volume isn't as loud as it was half an hour ago and the lights seem just a hair brighter. I think that's kind of how most people feel about THF at this moment. The pile of coats on the bed has shrunk considerably. The keg is kicked and all that's left is a couple of warm Miller Lites tucked away in the kitchen counter's corner, the cardboard edges of the twelve pack haphazardly ripped away. 

Fuck. That is spot on. Also beautifully put.

It's dead, Jim.

what this site needs is good PR/marketing and social media/seo optimization. Make a facebook page & group and pull some people in,

and google adwords is your friend

what this site needs is good PR/marketing and social media/seo optimization. Make a facebook page & group and pull some people in,

and google adwords is your friend

Somebody just took a level 1 marketing class.

Not to start shit or anything, but this site would probably get a huge boost of activity if we reverted to the old web address and site look. I think its been long enough that we should talk about the failure that this site migration has been. I dont blame anybody for the attempt, I think it was worth a shot, but I also think its a conversation that needs to be had.

That "sense of presence" simply does not exist today. I've pointed this out before, and of course it was useless, but I'll gloss over the finer points again. H2F has always been a social site first. We were Facebook of Halo, long before Facebook ever initiated their first server.  We were Twitter for the community, years before anyone knew what a "tweet" even was.  Today, we just call it "off-topic," but the WOYM thread did (and does) have eerily similar elements shared with FB and Twit. Have you ever considered that? I have. Because it's true.  Needed someone right away? "Get on AIM! That was what we used years and years before Facebook Messenger or even SMS.

The reason I point this all out is because, again, even though the site looks technically more up to date, we have lost so much of that "social" element in the transfer that we used to have with the old VBulletin.  For example, think that being able to see when a user last logged on is a big deal? It actually is, because H2F has always been, and still is, a social networking site first. Sure, you can say "well just goto the members list" but who the hell wants to do that? Remember when you used to see "last active 3 hours ago?" Seeing that gave you a light feeling of connection to other users. 

Another example - I haven't seen Crest post in a while and I'm wondering what he's up to. In VB, as primitive as it was, finding out Crest's "last threads" and "last posts" and even when he last made an appearance was fairly easy.  We can jokingly call it "low level stalking" but be honest with yourself. How many times did you used to do that with an old buddy that fell off the radar with the old site? The truth is, low level stalking (AKA "checking up") on friends is a perfectly normal function in any social media venue. All of this is more or less lost now. And it's a shame because we have failed to remember what we really are all about, what H2F/THF really always was, and that was a social hub for Halo fans. 

Some truly great points here. And I'd like to reiterate, members such as Crest, Mike, Fragtality, Phurion, Colo, etc. were people that made this website completely self sustaining even when we had shitty ownership in Z. Imagine our current ownership with the loyal members of old. Our best and brightest members stuck through thick and thin, but ultimately it was the dismantling of their home forum that caused them to leave. I'm not saying we'd have the same strength as before with reverting to the old VBull, but at the very least anybody that came back to check-in on the site might see it as their home once again.

I agree fully^

Can't knock Nv1ncible though, the site looks great and everything. It was just kind of a risky move for a dying community/game.

Halo 5 montage contest guys....
This thread is depressing

Some truly great points here. And I'd like to reiterate, members such as Crest, Mike, Fragtality, Phurion, Colo, etc. were people that made this website completely self sustaining even when we had shitty ownership in Z. Imagine our current ownership with the loyal members of old. Our best and brightest members stuck through thick and thin, but ultimately it was the dismantling of their home forum that caused them to leave. I'm not saying we'd have the same strength as before with reverting to the old VBull, but at the very least anybody that came back to check-in on the site might see it as their home once again.

 

I probably have less than 100 posts on the new forum compared to 28k+ on the old. I hate this layout. 

Id rather have the old layout with the new theme, just maybe a bit more compressed seeing that we wont need that many sections atm